So do I my friend. So do I. My best friend from this board: Haydensucks: The man with such a good taste.

Sorry...

Well, If I learned anything from reading these postings, here it is...

1) Hayden Christensen Sucks (Now there's a surprise!).

2) It was mainly Lucas that ruined Star Wars (Now personally I liked "Revenge of the Sith", it was one hell of an improvement over "Clones").

3) Gertie the Duck writes a really good and informative running commentary, along with being a big fan of Queen of Toad (My eyes are still sore from reading 2nd to the last above of her entries).

4) #1 Sly Fan is in fact a clone of Haydenlover222 because they both say the same thing concerning Acting challenged individuals (For the history of #1 Sly Fan follow the link ).

5) And lest I forget; Hayden Christensen Sucks (Didn't I say that already, Oh Well...Dejavu!).

Fair enough. And I blame Lucas AND Christensen. But mainly Lucas.

(This is surreal! Can one actually blame anyone for "ruining" Star Wars? I am too biased, I believe, as I was raised on these movies, but what would I think of them if I saw them today, for the first time?)

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad Well first of all I don't think Episode III was too bad a movie. Compared to Ep 1 and Ep 2(esp.) it was a blessing.

I think we may have to agree to disagree, on that point (not too bad a movie!? Maybe, if one's standards of comparison are Ep1 and Ep2 exclusively! ). Yes, I thought Sith was a million times better than the other prequels, but possibly mainly because of what we already knew from the old Star Wars movies. This was, after all(and after the boring non-build-up of the two previous movies), the movie in which we knew Anakin was going to become Vader and that all hell would break loose, which kind of automatically imbued the story with more pathos. 

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad HC did, however, ruin what he could ruin. I mean, c'mon the opening scene where he is supposed to look grim or whatever - he is irritating. He doesn't manage to deliver the emotions to his audience. I often sat there and wondered what it was that he was trying to express.

 I hear you!

I couldn't agree more and couldn't have said it better! I, too, think Hayden did a terrible job on Sith. His is one of the worst performances I have seen in a supposedly dramatic movie in ages.

It's just that, when watching Sith, I found myself getting angrier at Lucas and his "cool" little touches. I could almost picture him, sitting in his luxurious home thinking: "How can I make this movie even cooooler? Let's put some silly, lame-ass comedy moments in, enacted by computer-generated creatures; let's put more cool ships and gadgets and effects, in fact; let's make Yoda do some cool-looking kick-ass things; Let's put even more computer-generated rubbish in; let's make these guys twirl their light-sabers in ever more ridiculous ways and situations!!", and so on... and "Oh...Story? Are you suggesting I should spend more time refining the story and dialogue? Nah...no one will notice anything, if I put in more cool things to hide the fact that I am too lazy to do some actual work/find someone good who can do it for me!". Grrr!!!

Oh...and you musn't forget: Lucas is ultimately responsible for choosing Hayden and for deciding each of his scenes was fit for the final movie. He must have sat there and said, "This is great!". Jerk!

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad And I mean c'mon, I don't believe the audience was supposed to LAUGH at his downfall.

No, but I don't believe that merely removing Hayden from the movie would have contributed to making it good. There is a great story in there, but it should have been told completely differently, and possibly by someone else. This could have been "a galaxy far away" 's answer to The Godfather, goddamit!!!

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad Well, he did manage, somehow, to make it understandable for the audience that he was having problems, but I was rather thinking of constipation.

 Maybe I am not the only person who thought Hayden had just come back from a long stay in the toilet, in the moments that follow the decapitation of Christopher Lee. That grunt... 

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad It raises the question: HOW bad CAN one be?  And, yes, it is possible for an actor to be even worse than a Lucas script and Christensen is the proof. So, can bad acting be independent from a bad script? Yes, it can. As much as good acting doesn't seem to depend on a good script.

Once again, I would blame Lucas(who controlled most aspects of the movie) for choosing and encouraging Christensen. But yes, you are absolutely right: bad acting can, of course, be independent from a bad script. It's just that I felt Hayden's performance elevated the movie from an annoying/boring display of Lucas' overblown ego into something occasionally entertainingly hilarious.

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad " as I don't feel there was anything there good enough for him to "ruin". " My friend, Decameron will next.

I can't wait!!!

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad I think that, for example, Ian McDiarmid was good as Darth Sidious/the chancellor(if a bit camp, at times), but did that make the dialogue he was forced to spout any less ridiculous? Maybe not. Maybe you're right here. But still I bought it. I had never any doubts that he meant what he said.

Hence his being a good actor/  Hayden's being a terrible one. McDiarmid managed to do his best out of something terrible. I don't think it's the actors' job to make a turd good (or rather, bearable) or that they should take all the blame for its "turdiness".  

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad I am just saying that your dislike of Hayden may be blinding you to the fact that the main culprit here is Lucas. Lucas is another topic. But HC even surpasses (or should I say "SUBPASSES") Lucas' directing. God, he sucked soooo... bad.

I know. I merely started discussing Lucas because I noticed a trend in blaming Hayden, exclusively, for the horror that are the prequels. That has put me in the surreal position of urgh...seemingly defending Christensen(not my aim!!).

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad Unfortunately I am not a native speaker, otherwise I would have told you.

Don't worry, I know exactly what you mean. I am not a native speaker either and often find I know exactly what I want to say, but have no idea of how to say it in English without being misunderstood. But that's just language, for you...

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad But on the other hand, that might be a good thing. I mean, he acts like a 15-year old in the school-drama club, who can neither handle his lines nor his own body-language. Take ILM, put that into the background and you get a HC-movie...

...or *shudder* a young new Hollywood star in the making!

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad By the way...this is merely MY opinion (stole that line from you. Thanks )

No problem! I like to point that out, as I'm aware forum posts can sound argumentative, when one is merely expressing an opinion. It's hard to convey meaning on the Net!  

"I mean...you can (and should!) blame Hayden for being a terrible actor" , we do, don't worry "but I don't believe HE is responsible for "ruining" Star Wars,

Well first of all I don't think Episode III was too bad a movie. Compared to Ep 1 and Ep 2(esp.) it was a blessing. HC did, however, ruin what he could ruin. I mean, c'mon the opening scene where he is supposed to look grim or whatever - he is irritating. He doesn't manage to deliver the emotions to his audience. I often sat there and wondered what it was that he was trying to express. And I mean c'mon, I don't believe the audience was supposed to LAUGH at his downfall. Well, he did manage, somehow, to make it understandable for the audience that he was having problems, but I was rather thinking of constipation.

It raises the question: HOW bad CAN one be?  And, yes, it is possible for an actor to be even worse than a Lucas script and Christensen is the proof. So, can bad acting be independent from a bad script? Yes, it can. As much as good acting doesn't seem to depend on a good script.

" as I don't feel there was anything there good enough for him to "ruin". " My friend, Decameron will next.

I think that, for example, Ian McDiarmid was good as Darth Sidious/the chancellor(if a bit camp, at times), but did that make the dialogue he was forced to spout any less ridiculous?
Maybe not. Maybe you're right here. But still I bought it. I had never any doubts that he meant what he said.

I am just saying that your dislike of Hayden may be blinding you to the fact that the main culprit here is Lucas.
Lucas is another topic. But HC even surpasses (or should I say "SUBPASSES") Lucas' directing. God, he sucked soooo... bad. Unfortunately I am not a native speaker, otherwise I would have told you. But on the other hand, that might be a good thing. I mean, he acts like a 15-year old in the school-drama club, who can neither handle his lines nor his own body-language. Take ILM, put that into the background and you get a HC-movie...

By the way...this is merely MY opinion (stole that line from you. Thanks )

I mean...you can (and should!) blame Hayden for being a terrible actor, but I don't believe HE is responsible for "ruining" Star Wars, as I don't feel there was anything there good enough for him to "ruin". I was practically raised on Star Wars (older brother and sister subjected me to endless viewings throughout my childhood. Luke Skywalker swiftly became my hero.), but I can still recognize a crappy movie when I see one. The dialogue was risible, the story was, admittedly, better than the past two prequels', but still somewhat confusing(maybe better chosen actors could have helped in bestowing the characters with the emotions and motivations not present in the script, but they merely would have been trying to make a crappy movie better). I think that, for example, Ian McDiarmid was good as Darth Sidious/the chancellor(if a bit camp, at times), but did that make the dialogue he was forced to spout any less ridiculous?

I am just saying that your dislike of Hayden may be blinding you to the fact that the main culprit here is Lucas.

By the way...this is merely MY opinion.

You found the right word in German, if I recall correctly...