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  <title>The Official RAZZIE&#174; Forum : SOME BAD CHOICES</title>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES :  Matthew Broderick and Hank Azaria...</title>
   <link>http://www.razzies.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4517&amp;PID=49017#49017</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=137157">collin2</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> December 30 2011 at 12:18am<br /><br /><span ="apple-style-span"="" style=": rgb244, 242, 191; ">Matthew Broderick and Hank Azaria didn't get nominated at all? I'm sorry, but I thought they were worse than Maria! Matthew even sounded like he was reading off of cue cards!&nbsp;</span>]]>
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   <pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES :   I don&amp;#039;t think that DeForrest...</title>
   <link>http://www.razzies.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4517&amp;PID=42208#42208</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1568">SchumacherH8ter</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> May 25 2011 at 7:36pm<br /><br />I don't think that DeForrest Kelly should have gotten a 1989 Razzie nod for STAR TREK V.]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 25 May 2011 19:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES :  I think it was a result of a...</title>
   <link>http://www.razzies.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4517&amp;PID=40902#40902</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=2611">Michaels</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> April 17 2011 at 8:23pm<br /><br />I think it was a result of a "we're sick and tire of hearing about your love&nbsp;triangle with Jude Law and his nanny for a whole year" sort of thing. Yes, Miguel, love triangles exist in real life, too!&nbsp;<div><br></div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Sun, 17 Apr 2011 20:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES :  Sienna Miller didn&amp;#039;t even...</title>
   <link>http://www.razzies.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4517&amp;PID=40882#40882</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8803">Vits</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> April 17 2011 at 2:16pm<br /><br /><b><span ="apple-style-span"="" style="font-size: medium;"><font ="apple-style-span"="" face="'Courier New', Courier, mono">Sienna Miller</font></span></b><span ="apple-style-span"="" style="font-size: medium;"><font ="apple-style-span"="" face="'Courier New', Courier, mono"> didn't even deserve to be nominated for G.I. JOE: RISE OF COBRA.</font></span>]]>
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   <pubDate>Sun, 17 Apr 2011 14:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : True, true. It&amp;#039;s guilty pleasure...</title>
   <link>http://www.razzies.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4517&amp;PID=35598#35598</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8839">BurnHollywoodBurn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> October 31 2010 at 3:16pm<br /><br />True, true. It's guilty pleasure for the 12/13 year old in all of us. But it seems Razzie voters at that time just thought there were other movies that year that were much, much worse when compared to this early Marvel attempt at breaking into movies.]]>
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   <pubDate>Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES :   I have to say that I am amazed...</title>
   <link>http://www.razzies.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4517&amp;PID=35585#35585</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=9132">m0zart</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> October 30 2010 at 9:42pm<br /><br />I have to say that I am amazed that "Sheena, Queen of the Jungle" didn't have any wins in 1984.&nbsp; As a stupid kid hitting puberty at the time, I loved the film and saw it many times over.&nbsp; But as an adult who is well past the period in which a Charlie's Angel can so completely dominate my faculties and slant my judgment, the film has to be one of the worst movies of all time, and both the leads have to be among the worst actors and actresses of the decade! &nbsp;<div><br></div><div><br></div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Sat, 30 Oct 2010 21:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES :  Originally posted by ramonesunI...</title>
   <link>http://www.razzies.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4517&amp;PID=34016#34016</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8839">BurnHollywoodBurn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 16 2010 at 11:53am<br /><br /><table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><strong><em>Originally posted by ramonesun</strong></em><br /><br />I could show you again and again youtube clips or videos that show the true talent of these actors. Talent and artistic credibility you refuse to acknowledge.</td></tr></table><DIV></DIV>OOOOOH! That we have to see! Oh please, do post this so youtube clips of these actors being "talented", because I'm not the only one here who&nbsp;is going to want to see this ... for all the wrong reasons!]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : But thats not the point. The point...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=9039">ramonesun</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 16 2010 at 9:58am<br /><br />But thats not the point. The point im making is that Americans love to hate. So haters of Star Wars would be just as vocal as lovers of Star Wars. But yet here we are, with less complaints of star wars, way way less, than the praise of star wars. As for Shatner and Stallone, I garuntee most people would consider them artists. Your giving them so little credit its bordering on insanity. Even if you think&nbsp;them not&nbsp;artists, their seems to be little credit on their skills as entertainers as well. That's just wrong in general. Weres the respect? The admiration? I could show you again and again youtube clips or videos that show the true talent of these actors. Talent and artistic credibility you refuse to acknowledge.]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : Yes, people love to hate, but...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8839">BurnHollywoodBurn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 14 2010 at 5:59pm<br /><br /><DIV></DIV>Yes, people love to hate, but there are just somethings out there that make it so damn easy to make fun of OR hate because they have little, if any, redeeming qualities, ie. Bush, Kardashians, Twilight, ... Stallone and Shatner, etc. And yes,&nbsp;Americans like crappy stuff because ever since the settlers&nbsp;landed in what would one day become America,&nbsp;we've been&nbsp;lazy as can be and anything that requires little effort is celebrated. Why else&nbsp;would we be&nbsp;the fattest country in the world?]]>
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   <pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : I think people love to make fun...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=9039">ramonesun</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 14 2010 at 5:11pm<br /><br />I think people love to make fun of things they hate. The Bush administration, twilight, The Kardashians, etc. The list goes on and on. People make carreers out of hating crap (hint hint, whoever made this website), and in a world full of injustice and unoriginality, there is certainly a lot more to dislike than like. Books are made attacking filmakers, authors, leaders, and their works. So why not Star Wars. Face it, people love to hate. It's the sad truth. In fact, thats why many people see remakes. Most people dont take remakes of classic horror films seriously now, but go to them anways, to laugh at the incompetent work of the filmakers who created them, and the actors. Also, the reason remakes and sequels are constantly made, is because people like familiarity, even crappy familiarity. For instance, not every James Bond film is perfect, but its become something of an American tradition to see one everytime one comes out. Even though James Bond went through something of a dark period from the late eighties through the ninties and early 2000's. America has something of a bizzare love affair with the mediocre. Crappy food, poppy music, remakes....the list goes on. The only way to survive being laughing and ridicule of said crap (hence the razzies).]]>
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   <pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : On the subject of remakes, sadly,...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8839">BurnHollywoodBurn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 14 2010 at 10:39am<br /><br /><DIV></DIV>On the subject of remakes, sadly, when you're a die-hard fan of something, you're going to see each any every remake/sequel of your favorite movie series, no matter how bad the last one is, in hopes that the newest movie will make up for the last one ... kinda like a certain fan we have here at the forum who is&nbsp;having wet dreams about&nbsp;seeing the 5th "Final Destination" movie. As for "Star Wars" haters, come on, if people really hate something, are they really going to waste every waking moment of their time bitching and moaning out loud about how much they hate it for everyone in public to see? Nah. Granted, people on Fox Noise Channel do that, but at least they are paid for it. Chances are they are just doing to keep quiet about it and pretend like the thing they hate doesn't exist in their minds.]]>
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   <pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 10:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES :  I know many people remake films...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=9039">ramonesun</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 13 2010 at 8:38pm<br /><br />I know many people remake films because the first ones made money. I'm saying that the people who see the remakes often don't end up even liking them. So the film may make money, but the people who saw the remake probably left feeling their money was wasted. Its almost like someone taking a horrible, body-abusing drug over and over, hoping the next trip will be as good as the first lol. Like thats gonna happen :P&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>I would think Star Wars haters would be quite vocal though. If there's anything more fun than seeing a great movie, its trashing the crap out of a bad one (as this website proves).&nbsp;</div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 20:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : Actually, &amp;#034;The Godfather&amp;#034;...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8839">BurnHollywoodBurn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 13 2010 at 6:08pm<br /><br /><DIV></DIV>Actually, "The Godfather" was the original blockbuster, followed by "Jaws". Then "Star Wars" came around and by that time it was like "Okay, f*** art, let's make a s***load of money using formulas!", thus "Star Wars" is considered the final&nbsp;push in which Hollywood changed it's game plans. Also, the hordes of fans prove nothing. I'm sure just as many haters of "Star Wars" exist, it's just that they don't waste their time and money gathering together at sci-fi cons to declare their hatred or writing entire essays about how much the movies suck. And as for critical vs. cash value, sorry, that's wishful thinking. The reasons why all these remakes/reboots/sequels are being made is because the original movies made money, even if they were panned by critics.]]>
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   <pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 18:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : The people versus george lucas...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=9039">ramonesun</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 12 2010 at 10:23pm<br /><br /><P>The people versus george lucas tackled the prequel trilogy and the speacial editions more than the original films themselves. Also, it was Jaws that started the summer blockbuster trend, two years before star wars. And although no study is taken, you can see that the hordes of fans, the articles and books praising the series, and the overall reception greatly outnumbers the haters of the first three films at least. If you dont belive me go on google and see how many articles you can find that trash the original trilogy, then see how many praise it. The proof is in the numbers! Also, Disney popularity is different than critical popularity, as disney popularity is commercial popularity. For instance, a lot of people saw the friday the 13th remake, making it lots of cash. But even though lots of people saw it, they ended up not liking what they saw, hence its low CRITCIAL RATING on rotten tomatoes. Popularity in films arent measured by cash, but by critical value. If&nbsp;love towards a film&nbsp;was measured in mollah, then people would be going around dressed as Jason Statham in Death Race (perish the thought). </P>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 22:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : Many seriously question if the...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8839">BurnHollywoodBurn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 12 2010 at 8:49pm<br /><br /><P>Many seriously question if the influence made by "Star Wars" was a good or bad one. Many debate that it is the movie that helped ruin filmmaking, and started the Hollywood craze of making a blockbuster first and caring about the art of filmmaking second. Like saturnwatcher, I also question if the public would have been better off if the movie was never made. I'm sure the world of movie making would be very different if those movies didn't exist. And sorry, there is no proof that the movies are loved more than hated. A documentart entitled "The People Vs. Geoge Lucas" explores this by showing equal sides of the argument&nbsp;about if&nbsp;Lucas and his films had either negative or positive effect on people's childhoods and lives.</P><DIV>Also, yes, I'm not doubting "TJ Hooker" and "Dukes Of Hazard" were entertaining and had impacts on pop culture, but they shouldn't be spoken about as if they should be compared to truly criticially acclaimed series like "I Love Lucy" or "M*A*S*H".</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>And your arguements in defending the movies because people liked them is no different than your unsupported comment about more people liking "Star Wars" than hating it. Just because something is popular, that doesn't make it good, look at 99% of the stuff that the Disney Channel produces that is popular among little kids. Shatner was a failure in "ST 5", mostly likely because he was wearing too many hats and he couldn't act and direct at the same time and he suffered on screen because of it. Sorry, but regardless of your opinion of the movie, many see it as one of the worst movies of the 80s, no matter how much you want to down play it, and that is why it was razzed.</DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : They are not just opinions, but...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=9039">ramonesun</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 12 2010 at 11:58am<br /><br />They are not just opinions, but informed opinions. Most big volumed books on television history&nbsp;contain a passage on TJ and Dukes somewere (though im not calling them masterpeices, just entertainment). I know, Ive read two such books. Secondly, considering star wars is the most influential film of the last 30 years or so (im too lazy to do the math since 77), I would say the world would be quite different without it. And at a loss too. Those films are loved way more than hated, thats for sure....WAY, WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYY more. But anyways, ur missing the point. Im not here to talk about all the star wars films, nor hooker. Im here to adress Trek 5 (over 50% on RT, and therefore above average, since it includes public opinion), Indy four (76%), and the star wars prequels (all above 50%). Blair witch too (85%).&nbsp; Why nominate films that more people like or feel so so about, when you could be nominating truely crappy films? That is the question i bring up. Shatner wasnt perfect in trek 5, but he wasnt bad either. He was typical shatner, which most people tend to enjoy. And surely it didnt deserve a nominee as worst film of the 80's! There was so&nbsp;many films that sucked way more than that movie. ]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : There were large number of people...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=14">saturnwatcher</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 11 2010 at 11:19pm<br /><br />There were large number of people who liked Star Wars very much and large numbers that didn't. I really don't think the world would have suffered immeasurable trauma if they hadn't bee made.&nbsp; I'll permit your remarks about TJ Hooker and The Dukes of Hazzard to stand without remark. I think your opinions stand as a measure of the credibility of the overall argument.]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : TJ hooker and Dukes of Hazzard...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=9039">ramonesun</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 11 2010 at 10:31pm<br /><br /><P><FONT style=": #e9dbb1">TJ hooker and Dukes of Hazzard are considered classic though. Not in the sense that they are perfect shows, but in the sense that they have had an impact on our popular&nbsp;culture significantly, and they certainly havent given us that impact by sucking. Im not calling them perfect, but they both deserve their place in the annals of tv history for being enjoyable. The word classic dosnt have to apply to art, it can also apply to just plain entertaiment. Lastly, you don't know how glad I am that pretty much the entire world disagrees with you on the star wars films (prequels somewhat included)! the world would have never been the same without them (at least the first three), and even if you didnt like them, i bet they somehow changed your life for the better, as those films made cinematic history....and not just for the special effects.</FONT></P>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : Oh. </title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=14">saturnwatcher</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 11 2010 at 8:22pm<br /><br />Oh. <img src="http://www.razzies.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif" height="17" width="17" border="0" alt="LOL" title="LOL" />]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : You do realize that &amp;#034;classic&amp;#034;...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8839">BurnHollywoodBurn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 11 2010 at 8:17pm<br /><br /><P>You do realize that "classic" is just another term for "TV series from 20 to 50 years ago", right? It means NOTHING to the actually quality of the TV series. Hell, EVERYTHING on the TV Land Channel is called "classic programming", but&nbsp;that doesn't mean all of the channel's programming is classy, untouchable masterpieces.</P>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : The best thing about the prequel...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=14">saturnwatcher</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 11 2010 at 3:40pm<br /><br />The best thing about the prequel to the Star Trek series was that it didn't involve Shatner. But&nbsp;they took so many continuity liberties with the time lines and overall structure developed by the TV series and various novels that they could have renamed all the characters and divorced it somewhat from the original series and I suspect it would have been just as well received. <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>No..I didn't particularly care for the other three films in the Star Trek series. As previously noted, I didn't care for <EM>any</EM> of the films in the Star Wars saga. I had a degree of admiration for the first three (now called episodes 4-6)&nbsp;based upon ground breaking film making&nbsp;techniques, but the plotline, whether you want to call it fairy tale or sci fi wasn't very impressive.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>You may regard TJ Hooker as a TV classic. If&nbsp;I meet anyone else who does, I will now be acquainted with two people. I suppose you could make a case that B.J. and the Bear or even Dukes of Hazzard were TV classics. But please don't try. People will giggle.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Sorry, but the plot for the fourth Indy film was just plain laughable.</DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES :  See the thing is, you don&amp;#039;t...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=9039">ramonesun</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 11 2010 at 3:14pm<br /><br />See the thing is, you don't have to be a science fiction fan to enjoy Star Wars, in fact, the film is more fairy tale than it is sci fi, hence the words: a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... &nbsp;<div><br><div></div><div>Also, the fresh ratings for the prequel movies on RT prove that the majority of the film-going world liked the films, even though they arent as good as the first three. Also, you didn't like the well-received Search for Spock, The Voyage Home, or The Undiscovered Country? What about the much loved prequel that just came out?&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Lastly, TJ Hooker <i>is</i> considered a TV classic (though I'm not saying it's perfect), and to most of the people, he is an icon of science fiction, comedy, and popular culture itself. If you watch his films and his tv series, you grow to love his over-the-top yet loveable acting style. It adds a touch of fun to a very technological show (vulcan mind melds aside).&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><span ="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horiz&#111;ntal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; ">Plot wasn't so bad for the fourth Indy film either. I dont really like the fourth film that much, I'll make that clear. But I don't think it was nearly bad enough to be nominated for any Razzies, especially when it was up against flicks like The Hottie and the Nottie (shivers all over and dies on the spot).</span></div></div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : First, I really don&amp;#039;t think...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=14">saturnwatcher</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 11 2010 at 3:03pm<br /><br />First, I really don't think it is necessary for me to provide yet another list of why episodes&nbsp;"1-3"&nbsp;of the Star Wars saga were lousy. A hundred professional critics have already done so. If you want my opinion as a sci-fi fan and someone in the scientific field, I'll offer that I've never been much of a fan of the entire series. <DIV></DIV><DIV><FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV><FONT>Second, yes, there were jokes being tossed around about Harrison Ford's age as the result of the last Indy movie. However, those jokes were spawned because the movie was bad. If it hadn't been, people would have readily taken the movie into their hearts. Maybe if they hadn't led off with that retarded "nuking the fridge" scene, things might not have gone so badly. On the other hand, the whole plot was so retarded it was difficult to forgive anyone involved.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV><FONT>Third, none of the Star Trek films after #2 were anything but #2, if you get my drift.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV><FONT>Fourth, while T.J. Hooker the Motion Picture is almost inevitable, it was hardly a classic in the history of television. William Shatner has his fans and apologists, but to most of us, he is just a mediocre actor at best and an hilarious disaster at worst.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV><FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES :  What is the point of giving...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=9039">ramonesun</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 11 2010 at 11:39am<br /><br />What is the point of giving nominations to films that are loved, liked or given a so-so status? I thought the Razzies were supposed to look for absolute crap, not average (or even good) films!]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : Once again you have failed to...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=9039">ramonesun</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 11 2010 at 11:15am<br /><br />Once again you have failed to come to grips with the point of this forum section, which was made by the website to argue over wether past decisions were wrongly made. I'm well aware of what they thought at the time, but the point of the forum is to argue against what the voters decided. The 5th film wasnt even below 50 % on RT, meaning that more than half the film going population enjoyed it, surely meaning it isnt bad enough to deserve a razzie. Yes, it was nominated for a razzie, no sh*t. Thats not the point. The forum pointed out that the goal of this section was to disagree with past razzie choices. You can deffend their choices, but you can't say im being pointless when im simply doing what the forum asked: to argue against the nominations of the past. Im stating my argument quite clearly. The films i mentioned that were nominated have recieved either fresh ratings (past reviews included, as well as public opinion), or&nbsp; are somewere in the 50% range, which is far from crappy. Yet they got nominated for a razzie. Also, tell me this: if a film that got nominated for a razzie in, lets say, 1989, is now regarded as a masterpeice, would you still deffend the razzie voters choices (i'm being theoretical to point out an obvious statment here, star trek aside)? I don't care what they thought at the time, this forum was made so i can DISAGREE. DO U NOT UNDERSTAND?! DO you not comprehend that? I understand some people disagree with me, but im saying that more peope agree than disagree with me on the voters past&nbsp;choices (statistically of course, but that is the most acurate way after all). What if they nominated citizen kane for a razzie (ignore the point that there were no razzies then), would you still say that they thought it sucked at the time and thats all that matters, even though time has given us the true answer that most people like the films I have mentioned&nbsp;(love it even)? When the razzie nominates a film, they shouldnt pick films that got good, great,&nbsp;or even mixed reviews, but films that recived universal trashing! Lastly, to say that im judging star trek from a fans point of veiw is a correct statment, I am a fan, but then again, the films were made for fans, not casual watchers (such as, Im guessing, the razzie voters). The reason people enjoy the films is because you've grown with the cast and crew over the years and learned to love them like a family. Im guessing the voters of that year didnt watch star trek regularly, and are therefore biased in their own right (one could compare them to&nbsp; little girls from down the lane who get in over their heads when they walk into an S&amp;M bar never or rarely frenquented by all save the hardcore perverts).]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : Here&amp;#039;s the problem though,...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8839">BurnHollywoodBurn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 11 2010 at 9:14am<br /><br />Here's the problem though, you're not looking at the choices the Razzies made in the past as a critic, you are looking at them as a FAN. To you, Shatner is an artist, however, many people will only remember him as Captain Kirk or the guy who paused between every other spoken word. You may not like this, but it is true, same as some people may only remember Newman for salad dressing. Both are sad facts, but NO ONE seriously looks at Shatner as some artist. They see him as an ENTERTAINER, but not an artist, and as I said, there is a huge difference between the two.<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>And as I said, the Razzies are blind to whatever critical success an actor has had in the past. If they have a bad performance, they are instantly a Razzie contender. It doesn't matter if it's Halle Berry, Al Pacino, Stallone, or Shatner. We don't care if "Rocky" is an endearing movie that people loved or if Shatner helped make sci-fi mainstream (although many would debate that "Star Wars" did even MORE so), if you do a bad acting job, you will be razzed. You just have to accept that fact that there are people who don't look up at Shatner the way you do.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Lastly, complaining about past Razzie winners is a moot point. As I said before "it's not that bad by today's standards" is a weak arguement. No one votes for anything based on the question "He/she/it is right for NOW, but is he/she/it right for 15+ YEARS FROM NOW?" No, it doesn't work that way; we live in the NOW.&nbsp;Razzie&nbsp;voters thought Shatner and "ST 5" were the among the worst at the time, and they voting according to that. It might be as simple as they thought the "ST" series was getting stale and Shatner's acting was&nbsp;at its worse (it happens to all actors), and so they voted on that. You may not like this mocking of Shatner's acting, but it is a reality you have to deal with and accept, just as we have to accept that there are some people who may not know who Paul Newman is.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>So, in conclusion, while you maybe a fan of the movies and actors that you listed, you have to realize that not everyone agrees with you, and that to other people, these movies were talentless, hack jobs and thus they voted according by that opinion. It's just that simple.&nbsp;</DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES :      Dont call me uninformed....</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=9039">ramonesun</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 10 2010 at 11:11pm<br /><br /><p><font style=": #e9dbb1">Dont call me uninformed. Im well aware of Fritz Lang's silent works and who can forget klateau or however u spell it. Good as these films were, they were largely ignored by all but cinematic scholars/critics and film buffs (and it took a while for the original Day the Earth Stood Still to get the reputation it has today). Star Trek opened up the artistic potential of science fiction to the world at large, for EVERYONE(!) giving the genre the critical and universal&nbsp;attention it truly deserved, but was granted by only a few.&nbsp;</font></p><p>Secondly, the whole point of this post was to argue against what Razzie voters (who don't really represent most of the movie-going public)&nbsp;said... I'm well aware that they already made up their minds long ago and like the forum says, even they make mistakes on their decisions. You're missing the point of this post entirely!&nbsp;</p><p>Lastly, Shatner will be remembered as an artist because the show he was in was artistic (and I'm sure way more people agree with me than would ever dare to disagree with me on this one), morality plays in a science fiction universe, and he certainly helped make the show artistic, hence his "artist" and not just "pop culture" status.&nbsp;</p><p>Also, Stallone isn't just an entertainer. The first Rocky film itself is testament to that.&nbsp;</p><p><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horiz&#111;ntal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; ">You're also forgetting many of Newman's films were made as pure entertainment and not art (such as Cool Hand Luke). &nbsp;</span></p><p><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horiz&#111;ntal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;"><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"><b><font ="Apple-style-span" color="#cc0033">RESPONSE from Head RAZZberry:</font></b> Actually, COOL HAND LUKE was <i>both</i> mass entertainment and a work of art -- Here's </font></span><a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061512/awards" target="_blank"><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"><b><u><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">an IMDb LINK</font></u></b></font></span></a><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"> showing that LUKE was nominated for FOUR Academy Awards (including <i>Best Screenplay</i>) and actually won <i>Best Supporting Actor</i> for <b>George Kennedy</b>... &nbsp;</font></span></span></p><p><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horiz&#111;ntal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;"><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif">Also, the idea that <i>anyone</i> would attempt to equate <b>William Shatner</b> (a mediocre TV star who happened to hit it big by appearing in one iconic series, and who has made as many horribly bad movies as anyone, including INCUBUS, WHITE COMANCHE, IMPULSE, THE DEVIL'S RAIN, etc) with legendary screen icon <b>Paul Newman</b> (</font></span><a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000056/awards" target="_blank"><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"><b><u><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">IMDb LINK</font></u></b></font></span></a><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif">) is on the face of it ludicrous. Newman would deserve "legend" status for any ONE of the TEN films for which he was an Oscar nominee. &nbsp;Shatner has basically built a career on ONE character, and self-aware parodies and variations&nbsp;<i>of</i> that character.&nbsp;</font></span></span></p><p><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horiz&#111;ntal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;"><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif">Also, beyond the two men's "merits" as actors, Newman's much maligned line of food products have raised hundreds of millions of dollars for various humanitarian charities and causes -- What exactly has Shatner done to enrich anyone but himself??</font></span></span></p><p><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horiz&#111;ntal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; "><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif">In the real world, there is simply NO comparison between the two.</font></span></span></p><p><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horiz&#111;ntal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; "><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"><br></font></span></span></p><p><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horiz&#111;ntal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; "><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif">Oh, and <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098382/" target="_blank"><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"><b><u><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">STAR TREK V</font></u></b></font></span></a> <i>did</i> suck badly enough to deserve the multiple RAZZIES it "won" -- Has anyone else out there even <i>tried</i> to sit through it lately?? It's a lumbering, overlong, pretentious mess, representing one more attempt to milk box office bucks from a concept that should've been abandoned after the far superior <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092007/" target="_blank"><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><b><u>STAR TREK IV</u></b></font></font></span></a>, which most movie-goers (<a href="http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=startrek.htm" target="_blank"><span ="apple-style-span"="" style="font-size: large;"><font ="apple-style-span"="" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"><b><u><font ="apple-style-span"="" color="#000000">LINK</font></u></b></font></span></a>) <i>and</i> critics (<a href="http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_trek_iv_the_voyage_home/" target="_blank"><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"><b><u><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">LINK</font></u></b></font></span></a>) agree set the bar for STAR TREK movies featuring the aging original TV series' cast... &nbsp;</font></span></span></p><p><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horiz&#111;ntal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; "><span apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"><font apple-style-span="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"><br></font></span></span></p>]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES :  Hey, like I said, for whatever...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8839">BurnHollywoodBurn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 10 2010 at 10:50pm<br /><br /><div></div>Hey, like I said, for whatever reason, Razzie voters felt that "Indiana Jones 4" sucked and was an unworthy sequel to the series. Just deal with it. You might think a man being able to live through a nuke test by hiding inside a lead lined fridge is perfectly acceptable, but to Razzies voters, it was just as retarded as Fronzie and the shark jumping. &nbsp;<div>&nbsp;</div><div>And I find it laugh out loud funny that you mentioned being "informed". You claim Shatner helpped made sci-fi be taken seriously? Well, if you were "informed", you would know that a decade before Star Trek, there was "The Day The Earth Stood Still". And, all the way back in the 1920s, there was "Metropolis". These were the movies that helpped make sci-fi be taken seriously LONG before Star Trek showed up. So if you fancy yourself a film critic, try getting your film history right first. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><span ="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horiz&#111;ntal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; ">Are there young people who don't know who Paul Newman was? Sure. But Newman and Shatner are in totally different leagues. Newman is a legend of FILM. Years from now, he will be seen as a role model to all actors. Shatner is a legend of POP CULTURE. Years from now, he will be a foot note in the entertainment business, not an acting legend. See, you have the same problem with people here who defend Stallone as a great actor. You confuse what is popular and entertaining with what is good and enduring filmmaking. Newman's work will be remembered as an art form. Shatner and Stallone's work will be remembered as entertainment. Don't mistake them as the same thing.</span></div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES :  The Newman statment is sad,...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=9039">ramonesun</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 10 2010 at 10:46pm<br /><br />The Newman statment is sad, if its true. I find him a good actor, a very good one, but still today's generation hasn't heard of him nor will they make the effort to, unlike with Shatner. And as for my Trek 5 comment, that is valid. Citizen Kane received negative reviews on release, as did 2001 a Space Odyssey, though they are now regarded as great films. So I can definitley say the Razzies were wrong to nominate a film such as that, for having little hindsigh and ignoring way worse crap that came out that same year. It was nominated for Worst Film of the Decade for Gawdz sake! I really doubt it is even close to that!&nbsp;]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>SOME BAD CHOICES : But the thing is i wouldnt complain...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.razzies.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=9039">ramonesun</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4517<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> August 10 2010 at 10:41pm<br /><br />But the thing is i wouldnt complain if you werent wrong. You see, Indy Four has a 76%&nbsp; fresh rating on rotten tomatoes, and&nbsp; BWP has an 85% (three percent more than PA). This includes user ratings, which mean even a few years after both films releases, most people dont think they suck. Your signature notes that what you&nbsp;write above is your opinion, but what you left out was the word "informed" next to it. The razzies were dumb to vote against films that have generally recieved critcial acclaim. Whats next? They're going to nominate Inception for worst mind trip?]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
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