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JESUS - Is This SUPPOSED 2-B-A Comedy? |
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dEd Grimley 
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Joined: July 31 2008 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2024 |
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 Topic: JESUS - Is This SUPPOSED 2-B-A Comedy?Posted: April 17 2009 at 11:32pm |
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I again, bring up Saved! God I love that movie -- Religious parody with no religious commentary.
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CriticalFrank
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Joined: February 24 2009 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1314 |
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Posted: April 18 2009 at 9:47am |
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Saved would, if anything, get listed on a guilty pleasures list. I mean, it isn't an awful movie, but I wouldn't exactly call it great... Now Dogma on the other hand... THERE'S a religious movie I can watch over and over... |
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Life's short and hard, like a body-building elf - Bloodhound Gang
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JoeBacon
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Joined: July 15 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 492 |
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Posted: April 18 2009 at 4:26pm |
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Why is this reminding me of the Robert Kaufman script Jessica that he
tried to film after he did Love At First Bite? I remember a synopsis of the script about Jessica Carpenter living in the San Fernando Valley, discovering she was the daughter of God after she walked on the water of her house's swimming pool and her brother Jesus dropped by and he turned a gallon of milk into Häagen-Dazs. Then Jessica got 12 of her "Valley Girl" pals to follow her and the things just spiraled out of control after that. Now THAT is funny 
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saturnwatcher
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Joined: July 14 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2577 |
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Posted: April 18 2009 at 5:46pm |
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I liked the general theme of Dogma and it was pretty funny. The only objection I had to it is my basic criticism of all of Kevin Smith's work: TONE DOWN THE LANGUAGE A NOTCH!!!!! I realize that there is a whole generation out there that isn't familar with a single adjective other than that potent four letter word beginning with the letter "f", however, perhaps he could use his writing talents to introduce them to a few. I've never taken the time to actually count how often that particular word pops up in one of his movies, but I'd bet it typically hits 3 figures. Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky, but I don't think it's all that necessary even once. |
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Nine times out of ten, in art as in life, there is no truth to be discovered, only an error to be exposed.--H.L. Menken
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CriticalFrank
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Joined: February 24 2009 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1314 |
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Posted: April 19 2009 at 12:04am |
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Here we would get into an old debate, and that is whether or not words by themselves are powerful, or if people give those words power. This four letter f-word that you speak of, has no intrinsic power. The offense that people get from hearing it, is a trained response. I for example, could use the word "lamp" to mean the same thing, and inject just as much anger, and vitriol into that word. Yet, no one is going to say "Stop saying 'lamp', it's offensive." It is a word, that people have given so much power, that of ALL the words in the dictionary starting with the letter F, it is the ONLY one that gets referred to as "the f-word". It is actually a very interesting commentary on society, to think that there are is a list of words that are just so offensive that they should never be spoken. Considering all of the societal ills out there, I think the use of so-called "foul language" is waaaaaaaaay at the bottom. Why should we put limits on our own language? If a word exists, it exists to be used... |
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Life's short and hard, like a body-building elf - Bloodhound Gang
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dEd Grimley
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Joined: July 31 2008 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2024 |
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Posted: April 19 2009 at 12:45am |
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I don't know if I've OD'ed on Smith over the years, but I generally can't stand his stuff anymore. The way the lines are delivered... The dialogue feels really fake to me... I dunno. I've got like a thing with a friend of mine where we watch Mallrats a lot, which is MY favorite Kevin Smith movie, which should show you about how "on the same page" I am with most people here on Kevin Smith.
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CriticalFrank
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Posted: April 19 2009 at 1:12am |
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While I loved Mallrats, I still go for Dogma and Clerks more often... Doesn't change the fact that I will regularly quote Mallrats in my day to day conversations... |
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Life's short and hard, like a body-building elf - Bloodhound Gang
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dEd Grimley
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Posted: April 19 2009 at 1:41am |
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Mallrats is typically not a favorite, from what I gather. I tend to give people a lot of pretzels when debating the merits of Mallrats.
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Michaels
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Posted: April 19 2009 at 4:29am |
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Ah yes, I'm a Kevin Smith fan myself, but I feel he has jumped the shark, nuked the fridge or whatever after "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back". His movies have just not been the same ever since. And yes, saturnwatcher, he really does love a certain four lettered word that starts with "f", and I'm not talking about "fowl".
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dEd Grimley
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Posted: April 19 2009 at 4:36am |
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Fart?! It's fart, isn't it?
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Michaels
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Posted: April 19 2009 at 6:35am |
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Ah, yeah, sure. Getting back to "C Me Dance", as bad as this movie is, I don't think it's not high profile enough for us to give any serious voting attention to. Now, "Obsessed", that is a movie that is VERY worthy of our voting attention. |
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CriticalFrank
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Posted: April 19 2009 at 8:10am |
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Obsessed? Worthy of Attention? Because it stars Beyonce, right? You wish to shower praise and adulation on Ms. Knowles for her wonderful film. It's so "Obvious". :-P And as far as C Me Dance goes, if someone hadn't brought it up on this site, I doubt I would have ever heard of it... |
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saturnwatcher
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Posted: April 19 2009 at 3:28pm |
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I'd put it this way...ignoring the implied power of the word I suggest to be objectionable (and yes, words DO and must have power and meaning), suppose that we substitute, say, the word "red" for the other one in every instance. How tired are you going to be of the word "red" by the end of a Kevin Smith film? My guess is that your ears will spontaneously bleed every time you hear it again for a week. There are a lot of words in the dictionary and confining one's self to one in particular for the sake of shock value has a certain lazy quality to it that is worthy of criticism. I think Smith also tends to glorify certain things that probably don't need endorsement, but that is a subject for another forum and I'd rather let it lie here. I think he is actually a pretty talented guy who has unfortunately boxed himself in by limiting his appeal to an audience that in itself embodies underachievement. |
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Nine times out of ten, in art as in life, there is no truth to be discovered, only an error to be exposed.--H.L. Menken
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CriticalFrank
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Posted: April 19 2009 at 3:46pm |
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I think part of the reason you hear the word so much, is that it offends you so much. You'd probably be surprised that Kevin Smith, from my experience, can use that word a whole lot less in 90 minutes, then Christian Bale can in 4... But the problem is, is that people are so offended by the word, that they tend to hear it, and the impact that the word has on them, is what makes it seem like it is all that is said. And as far as words having power, they have only the power that we give to them. As long as you continue to allow a word to offend you, it will. When one comes to embrace the fact that words have no power in and of themselves, one will by necessity be less offended by the words. |
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saturnwatcher
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Posted: April 19 2009 at 4:15pm |
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I take issue on two counts: 1. At the point that you permit words to loose power, they also tend to begin to loose meaning at which point language itself begins to become ineffective: Or, at the very least , begins to loose it's ability to rally people to action or thought. While there may be some benefit to that, it is clearly a very dangerous, double-edged sword. 2. Even allowing for disagreement with point 1., it still remains that reapeated use of a particular word can become a distraction and annoyance. Dogma certainly isn't the only example of Smith overusing that particular word...it is quite characteristic to his work. |
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Nine times out of ten, in art as in life, there is no truth to be discovered, only an error to be exposed.--H.L. Menken
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CriticalFrank
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Posted: April 19 2009 at 4:53pm |
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Again, it is not the WORDS that have power, it is the person that USES the words. Words have no more power then a gun sitting on a counter. Until someone picks up that gun, it is just a piece of metal. Likewise, until someone uses the word, it is without power. The reason that word has a specific power over people, is because they are told it is taboo. It is a forbidden word. It has nothing to do with the meaning of the word, since the word can mean many things, (There is a fairly good comedy routine about the usage of said word, can probably find it somewhere online). The word itself, is the gun. And until people learn to stop fearing the gun, others will use it to intimidate, and offend them.
Well, then... I take offense to the repeated use of the words "a" "and" "to" & "the". Do you have any idea how often those words are used on a daily basis? The overuse of those words has "become a distraction and annoyance." Those words were used entirely too much in "Gone with The Wind" (one of them is in the title!) Now, I'm not trying to belittle you in this (actually, I quite respect your personal beliefs, unfortunately, they are not convictions that I can personally adhere to) I just think it is erroneous to attribute the power to the words themselves. |
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