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Member Discussion of 2012's RAZZIE® Front-Runner!

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    Posted: November 21 2012 at 11:27am
Originally posted by MiguelAntilsu

Here's Peter Travers's review for "The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn Part 2":


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dun-Ida Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2012 at 5:32am
This movie has tumbled even deeper into the "Rotten" zone. The Rotten Tomatoes rating has now gone down to...46%!  
Directed by Michael Bay and M. Night Shyamalan comes...a movie guaranteed to win Razzies!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vits Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2012 at 1:57pm
Just saw this. For your consideration: Worst Actor for both Robert Pattinson and Taylor Lautner (or is he supporting?), Actress for Kristen Stewart (also for SN&TH), Supp. Actress for Maggie Grace (also for TAKEN PART 2), and Worst Screen Couple for Lautner & Mackenzie Foy. But not Worst Picture.

I'll research on the book changes to see if it deserves to be up for Worst Screenplay and/or Worst Remake/Sequel.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote saturnwatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2012 at 8:09am
Originally posted by MiguelAntilsu

This film should get a number of Razzie Awards for a number of reasons: 
None of which are legitimate, even as much as it pains me to come to the defense of this series. But let's get specific:

1. It's only gimmicks are that it's based on a novel and it has gratuitous "fan-service."

Much the same could be said of the Lord of the Rings series. Personally, I find both the LTR books and the movies to be unbearably tedious and I am not alone. There are a lot of film series that are directed to very specific fan bases.
2. The story butchers vampire and werewolf lore (and basic physics).
Vampire and werewolf lore isn't nearly as uniform as Miguels would have us believe here. Most of what we, as Americans, think of as vampire and werewolf lore is the product of reasonably recent suggestions by contemporary literature and films.  A study of the subject will reveal that there is a rich tapestry of cultural variations on the lore. As for butchery of basic physics, the same charge could be very legitimately leveled at Star Trek, Star Wars and almost every sci-fi film ever made. In any sci-fi or fantasy film, a degree of suspension of disbelief is required.

3. The whole series plays out like a bad soap opera. 
Simiar accusations could be legitimately leveled at Star Wars and Lord of the Rings with an healthy dose of pretense slipped in.
4. This saga's influence has spawned imitators (most of which are pretty bad).
Anything that gets done in Hollywood that yields a net profit over a buck and a quarter is going to spawn imitators, mostly bad.
5. Moviegoers have been enraged by these movies since the first one stole awards from "The Dark Knight".
Miguel, Miguel, Miguel. Drop the "s" from "moviegoers" there and you have a legitimate statement. The only awards this movie ever "stole" from The Dark Knight were crap awards like The MTV Awards that nobody but you gives a flying flip about. Nobody is enraged because 20 teenage girls (the base of the MTV Award voting block) picked one of these films over The Dark Knight.

Also, this film is likely to be on Peter Travers's list of the Top 10 Worst Movies of 2012.  If it's No. 1, then that may seal its Razzie fate.  
It might make his top 10, although I wouldn't be particularly surprised if it doesn't given the competition this year. I'll bet you a 1 followed by a lot of zeros that it doesn't make his #1.

This is the only chance we have left to punish this series for all the bad it's done to the film industry.
I didn't care for any of the previous films in this series and I wouldn't have even watched them had they not been nominees. But none of them were Razzie worthy and I doubt this one is either, based on the buzz. If we permit this series to slip into the cinematic obscurity for which it is destined, nobody will be any worse off for it. I don't think it has done particular harm to the film industry. In fact, I think an argument can be made that it is one of the few film series that has appealed to a specific demographic that Hollywood has typically ignored.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vits Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2012 at 5:50pm
They added the final battle, which is literally one of the best I've seen in years. No, really! But they also added the twist that the battle never really happened, which completely ruined the movie for me. So whether this gets nominated or not for Worst Screenplay or Worst Remake/Sequel, it's fine by me. But not Worst Picture.
Originally posted by Vits

I'll research on the book changes to see if it deserves to be up for Worst Screenplay and/or WorstRemake/Sequel.
He won't, because his rating was just average. I admit I found it strange when he still put it in his list of the worst of the month, but that's maybe because there weren't that many bad movies in November. And even if he changed his mind and thought it was bad, he still listed it as #2, after RED DAWN. So it just can't be his #1 worst of the year. 
Originally posted by saturnwatcher

It might make his top 10, although I wouldn't be particularly surprised if it doesn't given the competition this year. I'll bet you a 1 followed by a lot of zeros that it doesn't make his #1.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jesse685 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2012 at 8:55pm
Saturnwatcher: There's no chance of it making #1 on Travers' list, it was kinda half-creeping out of the Scum Bucket.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote saturnwatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2012 at 8:23am
I want to take a moment to realistically examine Miguel's charge that these films have done some sort of "harm" to the film industry. As I noted above, these films have brought a demographic into the theaters that Hollywood hasn't paid much attention to in the past, and it has apparently been worth the effort. The domestic grosses for this film series to date is approaching $1.2 billion and the international take is in the neighborhood of $3 billion. Match that with another $3 billion in rentals and merchandising (conservatively) and you have a $6 billion franchise. If that is "harm" to the industry, I think every studio out there is hoping that similar hard times befall them in the near future.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vits Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2012 at 9:56am
In this video, the WHAT THE FLICK critics talk about the harm the saga has caused. But you'll notice they're mostly talking about this unique case, which means Saturn is probably more right than Miguel.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote mbh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2012 at 2:38pm
Of course every studio dreams of pulling a Twilight, without investing money, time or effort into production, yet having chicks throw their last dime at them -- as long as the movie fulfills their unsatisfied needs. 

This f**king franchise has done harm to the psyche of its fans, to many of the actors who starred in it, and to legions of males who were dragged/ forced to see these pieces of sh*t. 

Good thing is, the human race kind of lives in the moment, so apart from lists comparing franchise totals, Twilight's existence will be forgotten rather quickly...until they "reboot" it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote saturnwatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2012 at 7:02pm
Whoooa NELLIE! Did people spend a lot of money to see these movies? Yes. Did people spend a lot of money to see the Star Wars movies...yes, proportionately even more so. AND...there were folks that started camping out in front of theaters at the mere rumor the next Star Wars flick was going into production. Did anyone ever seriously accuse the Star Wars franchise of damaging anyone's psyche? Did anyone ever level charges of abuse at the males who forced their girlfriends to see those films? I am no fan of of the Twilight series, but the criticisms that get tossed at them are so wildly out of place that a bit of turnabout has to be fair play here. I wish they were Razzie-worthy, but IMHO, we have much bigger fish to fry!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mbh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2012 at 11:47pm
Saturnwatcher, I had written a rather lengthy argument (without exaggerations) about negative repercussions which Twilight brought to people involved -- e.g Robert Pattinson having a hard time being accepted as a real actor. Also, about parallels to Fifty Shades of Grey, the fanbase and the difference to the average moviegoer. But I just realized, if by now you still think of legitimate reasons for criticism as just criticism being tossed around for the sake of criticism, so be it. You're not going to change your mind, just like I won't change mine. 

The Twilight series is over now, and I don't think this last one has a realistic shot at Worst Picture, anyway.  

And in terms of stupid plot twists, Star Wars has nothing on Twilight!  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote saturnwatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2012 at 7:48am
I simply see a double standard that has been applied to these movies, largely because I think they are aimed at a fan base that is a rather easy target. We've discussed all of these movies as potential Razzies movies. Granted that none of them were very good, but all of them got critical scores well above what we would usually even consider.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HeadRAZZBerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2012 at 8:55am
RESPONSE from Head RAZZberry: This back-and-forth comparing and analogizing STAR WARS and the TWILIGHT movies is berry interesting, but I think, rather specious. The original STAR WARS trilogy was both ground-breaking and technologically innovative. Even if one were unimpressed with the dramatic elements of the original STAR WARS films, one could not deny their impact on American culture and the movie industry in particular.  

The same can hardly be said for TWILIGHT (either the novels or the movie adaptations). Other than Stephanie Meyers' continual dicking around with basic elements of both vampire and werewolf lore (for the sake of the plot, both creatures can now hang out in broad daylight?) there is little original, ground-breaking, or worthy of praise in any of this material. It basically takes the core elements of Teen-Aged Angst Novels and does a mash-up of them with monster legends to create a bogus dilemma (should Bella marry the werewolf or the vampire?) unworthy of discussion or devotion from anyone other than pre-pubescent girls. 

While this final TWILIGHT movie may not wind up among this year's Worst Picture nominees, my opinion of the entire franchise falls closer to that of MigulAntilsu than that of Saturnwatcher and other Forum members attempting to make a comparison to STAR WARS. While it may make for interesting reading, I find the basic premise of  comparing STAR WARS and TWILIGHT to be a bit of a stretch... 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vits Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2012 at 10:29am
Actually, there have been many discussions on this Forum about how fans and "fan-bases" can take things too far. I think it has more to do with the fans' actions than the movies. Our users make more fun of TWI-HARDS than of WAR-SIES because it seems more justifiable to camp outside a cinema to see a new STAR WARS movie (because at least some of them have proven to be good). However, fanaticism is bad in general. Even if the movie turns out to be good, if you set your expectations too high, you'll wind up thinking it's good, no matter what...and that's not fair.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2012 at 12:58pm
To be fair, the entire idea that sunlight is deadly to vampires was made up in the first/silent Nosferatu movie (for the sake of the plot)....  

Originally posted by HeadRAZZBerry

Other than Stephanie Meyers' continual dicking around with basic elements of both vampire and werewolf lore (for the sake of the plot, both creatures can now hang out in broad daylight?) there is little original, ground-breaking, or worthy of praise in any of this material.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote SchumacherH8ter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2012 at 5:01am
In the Bram Stoker's Dracula (the novel, not the movie), he could walk around in daylight, but it restricted his power.
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