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Stallone is NOT such a bad actor! |
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BurnHollywoodBurn 
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum 
Joined: February 03 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3557 |
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 Topic: Stallone is NOT such a bad actor!Posted: July 20 2010 at 5:35pm |
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I think might want to take your own advice, because I don't know what you have against Bale. Okay, he lost it and did an epic rant against a crew member. Big deal. His voice as Batman sucked. So what? But to say he sucks as an actor is just foolish if you're basing it on stuff that didn't happen on screen or only ruined ONE movie. I mean to say he's on the same level as Seagal, wow, compare apples oranges much?
Oh, and Dicaprio is over-rated. The dude is good, but let's face it, had it not been for "Titanic" making a boatload of money (no pun intended) no one would care about him, and he would just have been just another child star who faded away.
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The Four Horsemen of the Moviepocalypse: uncalled for sequels/remakes/reboots, 3-D surcharges, untalented "celebrities", and anything with Michael Bay's name attached to it.
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TaRaN-RoD
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Joined: November 20 2009 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 154 |
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 6:29pm |
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I can't say you that you are wrong on DiCaprio... But in my own book, he's equal with Stallone as my favorite actor -- that's it! I cannot do anything with it -- Stallone made me love movies, and it's thanks to him that I'm now a movies buff... It started when I was a child so I will NEVER say anything against this guy who inspired me, and got me started loving movies! It's all from youth! With DiCaprio, it's because every performances that he does seems to be perfect in my opinion, that's it!
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BurnHollywoodBurn
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Joined: February 03 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3557 |
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 6:39pm |
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Okay then. We all have our favorite actors or directors from our childhoods, the ones who made us love movies. However, when we grow up, we should be able to tell good movies from bad movies, even ones that our favorite actor or director did.
I learned to love movies because of George Lucas and Steven Spielberg, but with their recent movie choices like the "Star Wars" prequels, "Indiana Jones 4", and producing "Transformers 2", I seriously question if they have run out of creative talent. Everyone's career has to peak sometime, and just because you liked them in the past shouldn't mean you should blind yourself to the point you think EVERYTHING they do is great. Currently, I think Chris Nolan is a great storyteller, but not every movie he has directed is perfect, and I'll be the first to admit it. If you're really a fan of Stallone, you should be able to accept it when people disagree with you about his movies, rather than declare the man's movies all perfect, and claim that anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.
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The Four Horsemen of the Moviepocalypse: uncalled for sequels/remakes/reboots, 3-D surcharges, untalented "celebrities", and anything with Michael Bay's name attached to it.
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saturnwatcher
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Joined: July 14 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2577 |
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 6:49pm |
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Personal attacks are such a compelling addition to a debate.  Nonetheless, while I've never actually sat down and compiled a list of my own, here are a few names worthy of consideration on such a list: Jack Nicholson, Marlon Brando, Jimmy Stewart, Humphrey Bogart, Spencer Tracy, Charlie Chaplin (who wrote, directed and scored all of his movies as well as acting in them, and originally had to express ideas and emotions without the use of words) Lawrence Olivier, Gregory Peck, Clark Gable, Jack Lemon, Steve McQueen, Burt Lancaster, Michael Caine, Johnny Depp, Henry Fonda, Kirk Douglas...I could list probably 50 others worthy of consideration, and my list would not be myopic enough to deny the existance of cinema prior to about 1976. The point is that every one of the actors I listed above is FAR superior to Stallone and/or Leo DiCaprio. I am confident that my statement would be supported by virtually EVERY professional movie critic in North America, and probably most of them in Europe...
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Nine times out of ten, in art as in life, there is no truth to be discovered, only an error to be exposed.--H.L. Menken
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TaRaN-RoD
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Joined: November 20 2009 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 154 |
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 7:36pm |
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BurnHollywoodBurn, I agree with you on Spielberg and Lucas -- me, too! They are part of what made me love movies, and I agree that now I'm not really sure of the quality of their work! The Star Wars prequels were horrible and about Indiana Jones #4, it's strange but I enjoyed it!
So well, in a way we could say that we agree on some points! And thanks I was looking for the word ''childhood''... it was in my head somewhere but I didn' find it before you said it! Another good point about this forum, it helps me with my English! :) |
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BurnHollywoodBurn
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Joined: February 03 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3557 |
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 8:47pm |
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Well, it's good that TaRaN-RoD agree with most of what is said here, unlike certain other posters who seem to go out of their way to disagree with EVERYTHING that is posted here.
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The Four Horsemen of the Moviepocalypse: uncalled for sequels/remakes/reboots, 3-D surcharges, untalented "celebrities", and anything with Michael Bay's name attached to it.
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ramonesun
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Joined: August 10 2010 Location: PA Online Status: Offline Posts: 70 |
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Posted: August 11 2010 at 11:43am |
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Films that made a mark on our childhood are worthy of credit though, even if we dont love them as much now, because the helped shape us into the people we are....at least, for me they did! |
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FILM CRITIC AT LARGE
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BurnHollywoodBurn
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Posted: August 11 2010 at 8:08pm |
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Sorry, but just because an actor made a film that you enjoyed in your childhood, that doesn't mean he is by default, a flawless actor. No actor is. We're all fans of actors/actresses/directors, etc., but that shouldn't give us this bias, uncritical eye about everything that actor, etc. does. Sure, Stallone made an endearing movie, but that doesn't stop the fact that he mumbles in every movie he stars in and his writing is far from anything mind-blowing.
I'll even take an example. If you have read my past posts, you know I'm a fan of Christopher Nolan. In my mind, he's is best filmmaker out there right now; so far he has yet to make a truly bad movie. Now, I'm fully aware that not everyone agrees with these statements, they may think his movies are too boring or too complex or too moody, but I respect their opinion. However, if say "Batman 3" comes out, and the plot is full of moon crater sized plot holes, and the acting is wooden and emotionless, and the dialongue is on par with a 3rd grader reading level, and the editing is without a steady pace, then hell, I'll admit I was wrong and that Nolan is not a flawless director and I'll vote for him in the Razzies same as anyone else.
But that's where you Shatner and Stallone fans come in. You forgive and forget all mistakes made by these actors and proclaim that they "geniuses", "artists", and that "they deserved to be showered with Oscars and Emmys", etc. Guys, you're fooling only yourselves. Are these men pop culture icons, entertainers, and hammy actors? Yes. Are they masters at their crafts? Sorry, but no! And they will not be remembered as such.
And that is why 600 to 700 Razzie members vote for these men. Because as entertaining as they may have been at one time, when you get past all the warm and fuzzy feelings their past work gives you, you're realize that their acting throughout their careers have been nothing but fluff.
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The Four Horsemen of the Moviepocalypse: uncalled for sequels/remakes/reboots, 3-D surcharges, untalented "celebrities", and anything with Michael Bay's name attached to it.
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saturnwatcher
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Joined: July 14 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2577 |
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Posted: August 11 2010 at 8:20pm |
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When I was 6 years old I enjoyed Jerry Lewis in The Nutty Professor. I find it unwatchable these days, as is most of Lewis' other cinema work. So just because we might find something appealing as children doesn't make it classic...sometimes it is just crap that appeals to very young minds.
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Nine times out of ten, in art as in life, there is no truth to be discovered, only an error to be exposed.--H.L. Menken
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Julianstark
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Posted: August 11 2010 at 8:38pm |
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I second all of the below. I mean, Robert Downey Jr. is my favorite actor, but if he's absolutely horrendous in Due Date (the movie will probably be terrible, and I'm not sure if he can survive it), I'll totally be willing to give him tons of Razzie love.
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For Your 2010 Razzie Consideration: The Bounty Hunter and Leap Year --
Check out my blog! Movies and Other Things |
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ramonesun
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Joined: August 10 2010 Location: PA Online Status: Offline Posts: 70 |
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Posted: August 11 2010 at 10:15pm |
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You always seem to ignore everything I write, or misinterpret it. I'm saying that films that shaped our childhood should receive some amount of favorable recognition, good or bad, because they made us who we are today. I'm not defending them, just saying they shouldn't be down-played.
Lastly, I don't love everything Stallone or Shatner did, I'm just saying that all their good work still shines through, and way brighter than any of the crap they may have made. There are more good contributions to cinema and TV from them than bad. I do think Stallone is an artist (Rocky and First Blood are proof), and Shatner too, for giving us one of the most beloved Science Fiction Characters of all time. Give them both credit. By defending Shatners performance in Star Trek 5, you said I became totally biased, and claimed I love everything the man ever did. I don't. Shame on you for saying so!
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FILM CRITIC AT LARGE
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saturnwatcher
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Posted: August 11 2010 at 11:29pm |
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With all due respect, if I refect upon the person I have become and the course my life has taken, I can think of a lot of people that were major influences. I can't think of a single movie. Those same people probably shaped my tastes in movies and literature. I don't think that those people were brought into or kept in my life as the result of any particular movies. Anyone who came to me and told me that the course of their lives had been significantly shaped by the characters Sly Stallone has brought to the screen probably isn't someone I'd want to spend a lot of time around. |
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Nine times out of ten, in art as in life, there is no truth to be discovered, only an error to be exposed.--H.L. Menken
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ramonesun
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 12:01pm |
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The first Rocky is definitely something with the power to change your life, and people who admit they were changed by that film are very wise people indeed. Even First Blood is admired by some Viet Nam vets for showing that many people who returned from that war were scorned and tossed aside.
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BurnHollywoodBurn
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 8:36pm |
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Sorry, ramonssun, but your comments prove otherwise that you're still looking at the likes of Stallone and Shatner through rose tinted glasses. Sure, they have given the public iconic pop culture moments, but this doesn't make them "artists". When you are going to be remembered for only one role rather than your entire body of work, you're not an artist, you're an entertainer. Sure, there have been truly talented actors who are only remembered by one role, through no fault of their own, but a true artist has range that goes past the roles that they are most famous for. Yes, Stallone and Shatner have had alot of work since their career making roles, but to this day, they still have that wink at the camera moment as if to say "Hey, it's me, your hero, Rocky or Captain Kirk", because they know for a fact that if it weren't for these roles, no one would pay to see them because their acting is nothing to get all that excited about.
Actors need to be down-played, not all of them are "artists". A select few are, but the rest are just people who are paid to play make believe for our amusement, and Stallone and Shatner are the latter. I'm not downplaying their impact on pop culture, but I'm willing to bet a million dollar that if you went to Hollywood and asked 600 random people on the streets if those two will be remembered as "artists", you will be greeted by laughter.
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The Four Horsemen of the Moviepocalypse: uncalled for sequels/remakes/reboots, 3-D surcharges, untalented "celebrities", and anything with Michael Bay's name attached to it.
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ramonesun
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 10:48pm |
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See, this is were i disagree. Many wonderful and vital films in film history were made by directors with otherwise so-so films, but we still call them artists. Donnie Darko is a good example (Richard Kellys other film, the box, was ok, but southland tales sucked). It very intelligent and thought provoking, and artistry is definatley there, hence the word artist. Charles Laughtons only film, Night of the Hunter, is regarded as a masterpeice, and Laughton an artist as well. Boyz in the Hood from John Singelton, is a milestone of African American cinema, and Singelton is respected by many in the film community, even though his other films have recieved average reviews. Michael Cimino, who made one of the greatest anti war films, the deer hunter, made crap the rest of his life, but even he is still sought after for advice on good moviemaking. The examples go on and on. The point im making is that if you make one beautiful, brilliant peice of art, wether it be your only work ever made, or your other work is mediocre in comparison, you still deserve the title of artist for giving us an experience beyond mere entertainment that we wont soon forget. Though i think a debate about that would take up 500 billion pages lol |
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BurnHollywoodBurn
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Posted: August 13 2010 at 5:54pm |
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Sorry, but Shatner has done nothing to be declared an "artist". No one seeks him out for acting advice, just an autograph. You can yell "Captain Kirk" all you want, but that's not art, that's being a ham. I give Gene Roddenberry more credit for "Star Trek" than Shatner. Gene actually created the series, it's concepts and it's messages, but once you look past all that, you'll see the overall acting was either hammy or melodramatic.
And the difference between the people you listed and guys like Kubrick, Scorsese, Spielberg and the like, is that because they made ONE masterpiece, they will be remembered only for that ONE masterpiece. True artists make more than one masterpiece and are remembered for their entire body of work, not for just making one good movie and then disappearing from the entertainment business or making crap for the rest of their career.
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The Four Horsemen of the Moviepocalypse: uncalled for sequels/remakes/reboots, 3-D surcharges, untalented "celebrities", and anything with Michael Bay's name attached to it.
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