Official RAZZIE® Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > FORUMS on NON-NOMINATED 2008 RELEASES w/LYNX! > VALKYRIE
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: VALKYRIE - TRAILER
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

VALKYRIE - TRAILER

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Queen_of_Toad View Drop Down
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum


Joined: January 30 2006
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 314
Post Options Post Options   Quote Queen_of_Toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: VALKYRIE - TRAILER
    Posted: November 10 2007 at 8:38am
Here's a LINK to view the trailer at MovieWeb: THAT is hardly a German accent! Other than that the ROLE OWNS CRUISE!  AND SO DO HIS CO-STARS! 
imageimageimageimage


His bad accent is only ONE aspect of HOW BAD his performance actually is: He turned an educated, sophisticated nobleman into a  show-off, a poser. He doesn't get the lines right, he doesn't understand the situation and danger Stauffenberg was in. That line, "I am involved in high treason with all the means available to me ..." (or whatever it was precisely), is something that Stauffenberg really said. But I have strong doubts that he was half-grinning or smirking when he uttered that sentence. He knew what kind of effect it must have had. Darth Tiny doesn't understand the character and his mindset at all. Mister Short Sleeves is too self-important and too much of a show-off. I doubt very much doubt that anybody, not to mention  Stauffenberg, would be putting on too thick in that situation. The content of what he says is outrageous enough. Therefore I think that he would have said something like that as coolly and unmoved and neutrally as possible.  Darth Tiny doesn't understand this.

Other than that, Stauffenberg's upbringing and breeding wouldn't permit him the kind of demeanour and conduct Mad Pygmalion displays in the trailer. He is not reserved and contained enough. This is a man that comes from an old, aristocratic family. These people were very aware of style which also equalled being disciplined. They were trained not to show emotion. I can't imagine that anybody, let alone Stauffenberg, would display something like false pathos under the circumstances given. It's not compatible neither with Stauffenberg's breeding nor the situation he was in. Stauffenberg was deadly serious. He had to keep himself very together, very focused and very tight in that situation. I believe that anybody, no matter how disciplined, would be very strained and would have had great difficulty to keep his "contenance" and composure under the given tension and danger. In other words: We don't need another Gayden Crystalmeth here.

Another major mistake that I see in that performance is the self-importance and self-awareness Darth Midget put into the role. I have problems believing this was Stauffenberg's ‚style‚. This man had a goal and an intention. He was willing to give his life for these. How self-centred could he have been? Aside from that, imagine the instant situation: This man is putting his life at risk. He can be discovered anytime, which certainly would lead to his own death and most probably the death of many others. Stauffenberg was aware of that. A similar situation was portrayed by Leo DiCaprio in "Departed". I agree, that he's no Tony Leung and he played a character from a very different background and with a very different personality,  however when I take a look at the trailer, I see nothing like fear and tension: Which is the reason why Leo looks like Brando next to Darth Tiny. He always made you fear and feel with him in „Departed“.

I believe the only thing that you can think of in Stauffenberg‘s situation is the enterprise you are about to undertake and the danger and risk involved with it. Remember, you are in constant fear for your life. This is the kind of constant tension that you carry with yourself.  Thus, the portrayal of Stauffenberg would have been the combination of tension under discipline; sort of a showing when not showing, very restrained and contained and yet absolutely fearful (among other things I can't think of right now. ) IMO. But I see no room for the kind of egocentrism that Mighty Midget displays. Instead, I very much miss the subtlety that goes with that kind of character. 

Stauffenberg was a brilliant and complicated man; a multi-dimensional personality. Mighty Midget comes off as shallow and superficial. I don't see the many dimensions that one might look for in such a character as "Stauffenberg" on screen. I mean, the trailer may not be enough to judge this, but this is my impression.
 
If they can't even make Cruise look convincing or compelling in two carefully edited minutes of a trailer - when you can make almost anyone or any movie look good - imagine how bad he must be in that movie, as a matter of fact, how bad the whole movie will be!

He screwed the role. What is better yet is that the role screwed his career. The role owns him. His co-stars own him. I think they carry the air and the atmosphere of the situation Stauffenberg was in, a lot better than the clown in the leading role. He doesn't have enough emotional and mental weight for the role. I mean, come on, squeezing your eyes while embracing your kid and try to cry? That makes me understand Gayden.


What do you guys think?


For fun: If you want to know what a thick fat German accent sounds like, here it is: Nico, the moron, former lead singer of Velvet Underground.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkEylc1-18M
Please, forgive my poor English. It's not my native language.
Back to Top
HeadRAZZBerry View Drop Down
Berry Important MODERATOR
Berry Important MODERATOR


Joined: April 23 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5087
Post Options Post Options   Quote HeadRAZZBerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2007 at 5:22pm

WOW!  This looks like an Ed Wood/Sex Change remake of our 1992 Worst Picture "winner" SHINING THROUGH, with Tom Cruise replacing Worst Actress "winner" Melanie Griffith as the inept behind-enemy-lines agent. And yes, Tom's near total lack of any accent manages to make him look even more idiotic (if that's even possible!)... 

 

Ye Olde Head RAZZberry
Back to Top
cvcjr13 View Drop Down
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum


Joined: September 01 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1190
Post Options Post Options   Quote cvcjr13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 6:00am

Cruise's [ahem] German accent is better than Kevin Costner's [ahem] English accent in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, or Sean Bean's [ahem] Ohioan accent in Silent Hill.

That's not saying much for Tom Cruise, however.  Cruise shouldn't have just made an attempt at an accent.  With all the voice and diction coaches available, the only excuse for a top rate actor to blow an accent is if they just can't do it.  You either speak it well, or you find someone else to play the role. 

And I have to wonder if this story was strong enough for the big screen.  I mean, you have the same problem with Lions for Lambs as you did with Apollo 13--everyone knows how it's going to end.  Apollo 13 managed to keep you on edge anyway.  My guess is, based on this clip, that Lions for Lambs may keep you on edge, too.  That is, you'll be on the edge of your theatre seat, holding onto the seat in front of you while laughing so hard at Cruise.  He's bit off more than he could chew.  He's not a good enough actor for this role!

And look at the list of actors, with Brian Singer as the director!  What's with this year?  We've had several movies with superstar casts, most of which were duds.  Evening, anybody?

And WHY did they change the title from Valkyrie to Lions for Lambs?

 

Back to Top
Queen_of_Toad View Drop Down
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum


Joined: January 30 2006
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 314
Post Options Post Options   Quote Queen_of_Toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 7:11am

Cruise's [ahem] German accent is better than Kevin Costner's [ahem] English accent in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, or Sean Bean's [ahem] Ohioan accent in Silent Hill.

That's not saying much for Tom Cruise, however.  Cruise shouldn't have just made an attempt at an accent.

Apparently he didn't attempt anything. What I hear in that trailer is a clean American accent.

You either speak it well, or you find someone else to play the role.

That part was originally written for Thomas Kretschmann. Three days before signing the contract Darth Tiny stole the role. Kretschmann said that Mighty Midget wants to get an Oscar with that part.

And I have to wonder if this story was strong enough for the big screen.

This story IS strong enough for the big screen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_Schenk_von_Stauffenberg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_20_Plot


I mean, you have the same problem with Lions for Lambs as you did with Apollo 13--everyone knows how it's going to end.
The ending itself does not matter too much IMO. The story itself is interesting. You need a good narrator. Everybody knew from the beginning how "Gone With The Wind" would end. And the list of successful and good films with known endings is endless. 'Schindler's List' being another one of them...

And WHY did they change the title from Valkyrie to Lions for Lambs?

Perhaps because these are two different films?

Please, forgive my poor English. It's not my native language.
Back to Top
cvcjr13 View Drop Down
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum


Joined: September 01 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1190
Post Options Post Options   Quote cvcjr13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 10:56am

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad


And WHY did they change the title from Valkyrie to Lions for Lambs?

Perhaps because these are two different films?

OH MY WORDS!  I knew all about Valkyrie, but I DIDN'T KNOW HE MADE ANOTHER ONE!  Thank you, QoT, for sorting that out for me.  I thought Cruise only had one movie going.  I was so confused.

But I'm still confused.  Valkyrie looks like it will be a stiff, and Lions for Lambs, based on its box office and reviews, looks like it is a stiff.  Is this how you start a movie studio?  By releasing two stiffs in a row?  Not to mention, chasing Oscars in the movies is (I can't help it) risky business. . . .

As for his accent, to my ears, it sounds like he's attempting a German accent.  It's definitely NOT a clear American accent on several lines.  But it's also definitely NOT a clear German accent.  It's not even as good as Robin Williams in Mrs. Doubtfire, and Williams' mangled accent in that movie was part of the joke.  If that clip is any indication, I can imagine Cruise stayed up the night before going over with a diction coach, and then he goes to filiming the next day thinking he's ready.  

Back to Top
Queen_of_Toad View Drop Down
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum


Joined: January 30 2006
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 314
Post Options Post Options   Quote Queen_of_Toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 12:14am
It's not even as good as...

No. It's just as bad as Tom Cruise.

I am German and I thought it was a clear American accent. How German can his accent be?

Btw, "Spiegel" disagrees with us on this topic. I will be back as soon as I am done with the translation.
Please, forgive my poor English. It's not my native language.
Back to Top
cvcjr13 View Drop Down
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum


Joined: September 01 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1190
Post Options Post Options   Quote cvcjr13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 2:46am

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad

[quote]

 How German can his accent be?

That's my point.  He's trying to sound German.  It's a very weak attempt.  I'm guessing to his ears he sounds German, but to my ears, I can hear the attempt, but he blew it.  Again, his attempt at an accent sounds like Kevin Costner in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.  What's a midwestern boy doing in the middle of Sherwood Forest?

Of course, "try" can mean both "attempt" and "exasperate" in English, so making a pun, one could say Tom Cruise is always trying. . . .

Back to Top
Queen_of_Toad View Drop Down
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum


Joined: January 30 2006
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 314
Post Options Post Options   Quote Queen_of_Toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2007 at 11:55am
Please, forgive my poor English. It's not my native language.
Back to Top
cvcjr13 View Drop Down
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum


Joined: September 01 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1190
Post Options Post Options   Quote cvcjr13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2007 at 10:17pm

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad

I am still not convinced that turning from Tommy Boy into Tommy Curl took THAT much of an acting effort.

Love those stills. 

QoT, I feel a strong actor could do what Tom did with minimal effort, and probably would have gone even farther and blown everyone away on the screen.  If the trailer is any indication, I'd say Tom has failed to do that.  The trailer is sadly underwhelming.

Back to Top
nico View Drop Down
Berry New Comer
Berry New Comer


Joined: April 21 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5
Post Options Post Options   Quote nico Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 11:21am

QoT: 

 

Back to Top
Queen_of_Toad View Drop Down
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum


Joined: January 30 2006
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 314
Post Options Post Options   Quote Queen_of_Toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2007 at 4:52pm
Now, did they read this site or what? Because, here, my dear Berryheads, comes another raving review:

"Jerry Maguire (aka Tom Cruise) in Hitler Murder Attempt

Jerry Maguire tried to kill Adolf Hitler? Or was it Joel from "Risky Business"?

The first trailer is out from the Tom Cruise movie “Valkyrie” and it’s a doozy. This misguided attempt by Cruise to win fans for Scientology in Germany by playing a local hero has got to be the single worst idea in modern movie history.

As I’ve said before, the tag line should be: “You had me at Achtung.”

Click here to watch

Even though this is not “Springtime for Hitler,” the trailer is so awful and so indicative of what’s to come, you can only imagine Mel Brooks popping up in it.

Cruise wears an eye patch and a Nazi uniform, but speaks with the same flat, unaffected American accent that places him somewhere between Redondo Beach and Johnny Rockets. It’s absolutely hysterical to hear and see a boyish Nazi with blazing white perfect teeth and that voice announce, “We must kill Hitler.”

The accent is only part of the problem, but it’s a big part. Cruise apparently didn’t even try for a German sound to play Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg. It’s as if Meryl Streep wandered into “Sophie’s Choice” sounding like a Valley Girl.

If this was the way he thought he’d get to the hearts and minds of Germans, maybe he should get some new marketing advice. When the fans in that country see this, even Brunhilde won’t be able to help him!"


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311929,00.html
Please, forgive my poor English. It's not my native language.
Back to Top
cvcjr13 View Drop Down
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum


Joined: September 01 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1190
Post Options Post Options   Quote cvcjr13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2007 at 2:05am

Cruise will need to redub his voice for the entire film, this time with a vocal coach holding him in a headlock until he says it right, or else this film is flushed away.  That would be expensive, but can United Artists afford two duds in a row?  The sad thing is, I liked what I saw everyone else doing.  But since Cruise is the center, it's like everything else just doesn't matter. 

Of course, the question is, would even that be enough?  But I feel they don't have a choice about it.  Cruise's accent kills the film.

Back to Top
cvcjr13 View Drop Down
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum


Joined: September 01 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1190
Post Options Post Options   Quote cvcjr13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2007 at 2:07am

Anyone want to volunteer to be the vocal coach? . . .

Originally posted by cvcjr13

. . .this time with a vocal coach holding him in a headlock until he says it right. . .

Back to Top
Queen_of_Toad View Drop Down
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum


Joined: January 30 2006
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 314
Post Options Post Options   Quote Queen_of_Toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2007 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by cvcjr13

Cruise will need to redub his voice for the entire film, this time with a vocal coach holding him in a headlock until he says it right, or else this film is flushed away.  That would be expensive, but can United Artists afford two duds in a row?  The sad thing is, I liked what I saw everyone else doing.  But since Cruise is the center, it's like everything else just doesn't matter. 

Of course, the question is, would even that be enough?  But I feel they don't have a choice about it.  Cruise's accent kills the film.


Hmmm... HeadRAZZ, do you think they will redub Tombolina's accent? Wouldn't it be nice though if they redubbed it and he would only get SLIGHTLY better? There are things you just wish for and actually get...
Please, forgive my poor English. It's not my native language.
Back to Top
Queen_of_Toad View Drop Down
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum


Joined: January 30 2006
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 314
Post Options Post Options   Quote Queen_of_Toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2007 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by cvcjr13

Anyone want to volunteer to be the vocal coach? . . .

Originally posted by cvcjr13

. . .this time with a vocal coach holding him in a headlock until he says it right. . .


Why do I feel like you're looking at me???
Please, forgive my poor English. It's not my native language.
Back to Top
cvcjr13 View Drop Down
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum
RAZZIE® Inner Sanctum


Joined: September 01 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1190
Post Options Post Options   Quote cvcjr13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2007 at 2:44am

Originally posted by Queen_of_Toad

Why do I feel like you're looking at me???


Cruise's Minority Report squad would crash through your door the second you landed the job!

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down