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Who to Kick in the Ca-REAR?!?!?!

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saturnwatcher View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 11 2009 at 10:36am

And before you say that I'm wrong or call me any derogatory names for saying that, have any of you seen at least some of Stallone's lesser known work?

Well, it looked like someone imploring us not to respond in kind to me. Alas, my mistake....anyway...I'm not sure if you are referring to RB or JR when you said "the film received overwhelmingly postive reviews..." RB scored 76% at Rotten Tomatoes which is good, but not exactly overwhelming since most of the positive reviews were qualifed endoresements. JR scored a rather pathetic 37%. By and large, most of my students probably wouldn't think I'm giving their essays overwhelmingly positive scores if they saw a 76 or 37 at the top, even if I complimented individual points.

Incidentally, I don't think anyone here has ever criticized Stallone's performance in Lord's of Flatbush, but let's face it...it wasn't exactly a big role.

Nine times out of ten, in art as in life, there is no truth to be discovered, only an error to be exposed.--H.L. Menken
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Post Options Post Options   Quote razziesucks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 10:54am
Originally posted by saturnwatcher

And before you say that I'm wrong or call me any derogatory names for saying that, have any of you seen at least some of Stallone's lesser known work?

Well, it looked like someone imploring us not to respond in kind to me. Alas, my mistake....anyway...I'm not sure if you are referring to RB or JR when you said "the film received overwhelmingly postive reviews..." RB scored 76% at Rotten Tomatoes which is good, but not exactly overwhelming since most of the positive reviews were qualifed endoresements. JR scored a rather pathetic 37%. By and large, most of my students probably wouldn't think I'm giving their essays overwhelmingly positive scores if they saw a 76 or 37 at the top, even if I complimented individual points.

Incidentally, I don't think anyone here has ever criticized Stallone's performance in Lord's of Flatbush, but let's face it...it wasn't exactly a big role.

 

Yes I was referring to RB and 76% pretty much goes against what you said. A film that scored well among both critics and fans alike. I said Rambo didn't exactly do it for me, 37% is probably about right, out of 4 stars, I'd give it 2, maybe 2 and half, nothing amazing, nothing terrible. And compared to some other films released this year, Eagle Eye, 7 Pounds, Untraceable etc. did much worse, were more ludicrous films and had actors that will never touch Stallone's top performances.

I never said anybody here criticized Stallone for his performance in Lords of Flatbush, I question the fact that none of you people here that feel that Stallone is this awful actor, have ever seen this performance or many of his other terrific performances. And what do you mean that wasn't a big role, do you mean compared to his career performances or his actual role in the film. If it's the former, then you'd be wrong there, because for one who cares how early the role came, you want see someone say "De Niro in Mean Streets....meh, wasn't a big role". If it's the latter, then you'd be wrong there too, seeing as how his character really is the backbone of that whole film. Really, have you seen one of those Stallone films that I listed?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote razziesucks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 11:02am
And just to let it be known, I don't like Stallone because of Cobra, Lock Up or Over the Top, I went ahead and I watch films like F.I.S.T or Nighthawks, because I couldn't believe that a guy that showed so much talent in Rocky, just went ahead and said, yeah I think I'll make nonsensical action flicks now. And I was right, the guy is a great actor when given decent material to work with, and quite honestly, his drama films are so much better then his action flicks. I hope he'll do more in the future, although I think his next film the Expendables, can be solid.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dEd Grimley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 11:17am
Baaaaahh... Hijoputa... Ok, I had a whole long thing and it got erased... Quick summary - I don't think Stallone is the worst, and I don't mean to come across as supporting his nomination for worst career, but he has made some really bad movies, and he rarely stars in movies that aren't over-the-top action, and I support a person's right to argue that he's not the best. I think the reason for why people dislike him here so much is the overall value that goes along with Stallone's name in opposition to the quality of his films. He's one of the biggest names of all time, and yet he asks us to pause, lest his mother attempt to kill us. Most of the examples you use to defend him are from much older films, and perhaps their argument could be made that he had so much going for him, only to let it all slip away into the likes of Judge Dredd. I personally, think others have done worse, but there is a case to be made. That ended up being longer than a brief summary. The only reason I wanted to try responding again was to ask whether or not Milo Ventimiglia secretly is his bastard child. I remember the first time I saw that cat on Heroes, moving the muscles on only one side of his mouth as he talked and asking myself that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote saturnwatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 11:27am

If I were attempting to make the argument Henry Winkler is a great actor based upon his performance in The Lord's of Flatbush and that was one of my stronger arguments, I think I'd give serious thought to withdrawing from the debate. Like most Stallone fans, there is precious little probability we are going to get you to view the situation objectively, particularly when you seem to believe that a 76% rating at RT, mostly garnered on comments like, "Hey, this movie wasn't as bad as we expected" constitutes enthusiastic critical reaction.

RB pulled a domestic gross of $70 million with a median viewer score of B+ from viewers according to box office mojo which ranks it as a lukewarm success publically. JR came in at a rather pathetic $43 million domestic with an average viewer rating of "B" suggesting that not only were a lot of Stallone's fans much less enthusiastic, but word of mouth kept a lot of them from going, or at least going back.

Nine times out of ten, in art as in life, there is no truth to be discovered, only an error to be exposed.--H.L. Menken
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Post Options Post Options   Quote razziesucks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 11:28am
^^Stallone didn't let it slip away, the problem was that nobody went to see his non-Rocky/Rambo films. Take Nighthawks for example, this film flopped, why, because people thought terrorist acts in the U.S. were too far fetched. He started making big budget action flicks, it was not his intentions, but it happened.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dEd Grimley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 11:39am
Nighthawks was made in 1981. From there on, we have the 80's movies to which no one was trying to debate were good, and then his big budget action movies. Sooooo... I guess I don't see your logic. If that's all he makes, and he hasn't made a great movie (and I haven't seen Nighthawks, so I'm going under the assumption that it was for the sake of this argument) since 1981. I still say Costner is way worse than Stallone any day though.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote razziesucks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 11:52am
Originally posted by saturnwatcher

If I were attempting to make the argument Henry Winkler is a great actor based upon his performance in The Lord's of Flatbush and that was one of my stronger arguments, I think I'd give serious thought to withdrawing from the debate. Like most Stallone fans, there is precious little probability we are going to get you to view the situation objectively, particularly when you seem to believe that a 76% rating at RT, mostly garnered on comments like, "Hey, this movie wasn't as bad as we expected" constitutes enthusiastic critical reaction.

RB pulled a domestic gross of $70 million with a median viewer score of B+ from viewers according to box office mojo which ranks it as a lukewarm success publically. JR came in at a rather pathetic $43 million domestic with an average viewer rating of "B" suggesting that not only were a lot of Stallone's fans much less enthusiastic, but word of mouth kept a lot of them from going, or at least going back.

What are you arguing?!?! Was The Lords of Flatbush the only film I mentioned, no, it's one of the films that adds to his body of work. And if you watch the film, you'd know, Winkler was a side character at best, with King and Stallone being the leads, which is why one could bring up this performance from Stallone.

You know you're right, 76% isn't too good, so when the Curious Case of Benjamin Button win the Oscar for best film at 72%, I'll be sure to send in my complaints. You use these ratings to get an idea of how good the film is, but why on earth would you go simply by a websites percentage. You have to take everything into account, and yes by most accounts, the general public liked it. So put two and two together, and we get a film with an overall positive reception, that was easy, wasn't it. As for box office, I can really care less, I've never been the movie type to argue which movie made more or whatever, but what RB did was still pretty impressive. The film, worldwide made $155,721,209, to a franchise that was considered dead, seeing as the last film flopped, and the leading role was played by a guy that had been considered done. Maybe not up to your standards, but still, not too bad.

As for Rambo, again for an actor considered to be done, for a franchise to be considered run out, and in this time and age were PG-13 films dominate the market, a worldwide gross of $113,244,290, not all that bad. And according to what do the fans of the Rambo series consider this too be not too good, certainty not according to IMDB, Box Office Mojo has it at a B, but guess what, First Blood and Rambo II are also at a B, with Rambo III at a C+. So not quite disappointing as you make it seem.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote saturnwatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 11:55am

For the record, The Curiously Tedious and Boring Case of Benjamin Butthead hasn't even received an Oscar nomination as of yet, let alone winning anything. Assuming for just a moment that it does manage to win, it will have done so in a decidedly bad year marred by the writer's strike. It's victory will be looked upon with the same tainted credibility as Barry Bond's home run record or, Stallone's Ocar victory for Rocky in a year where considerably better movies split the vote.

 The strongest case against your argument is Stallone's collective body of work.

Nine times out of ten, in art as in life, there is no truth to be discovered, only an error to be exposed.--H.L. Menken
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Post Options Post Options   Quote razziesucks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 12:00pm

Originally posted by dEd Grimley

Nighthawks was made in 1981. From there on, we have the 80's movies to which no one was trying to debate were good, and then his big budget action movies. Sooooo... I guess I don't see your logic. If that's all he makes, and he hasn't made a great movie (and I haven't seen Nighthawks, so I'm going under the assumption that it was for the sake of this argument) since 1981. I still say Costner is way worse than Stallone any day though.

I said for example, meaning I'll just put this one film out to give you general idea of how well the film did. Along with Nighthawks, F.I.S.T., Paradise Alley and Escape to Victory all flopped, or barley pulled even. He then First Blood, which was a great film, and was his first financial hit since Rocky II, so he then made Rocky III. Tried to branch out again, but this time failed both critically and financially and went back to safe ground with both Rambo II and Rocky IV and Stallone stopped trying to do films for art, and instead he became a big action movie star.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote saturnwatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by razziesucks

 

 He then First Blood, which was a great film, and was his first financial hit since Rocky II, so he then made Rocky III.

First Blood was a "great film"???????????????

I hearby retire from this debate. Either it is no longer occuring in the universe I inhabit or one participants just forfeited all of his credibility.  

Nine times out of ten, in art as in life, there is no truth to be discovered, only an error to be exposed.--H.L. Menken
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Post Options Post Options   Quote razziesucks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by saturnwatcher

For the record, The Curiously Tedious and Boring Case of Benjamin Butthead hasn't even received an Oscar nomination as of yet, let alone winning anything. Assuming for just a moment that it does manage to win, it will have done so in a decidedly bad year marred by the writer's strike. It's victory will be looked upon with the same tainted credibility as Barry Bond's home run record or, Stallone's Ocar victory for Rocky in a year where considerably better movies split the vote.

 The strongest case against your argument is Stallone's collective body of work.

For the record, I believe The Wrestler is the best film of the year, but it got hosed by the Golden Globes. If the Curious Case wins the Golden Globe, there is a good chance of it taking home an Oscar. This year has been a solid year for films, the Wrestler has become one of my favorite films. And nice jab at Stallone, too bad Rocky did deserve it, but that's another topic all together.

His body of work, but that's it though, you haven't seen his body or work. You were just using the Lords of Flatbush as part of your arguments, yet you haven't even seen it. I mean come on.

BTW- Nice job avoiding anything I wrote about in my previous post and writing nothing of merit in this post except that you were able to throw another insult at Stallone. Your strawman arguments are getting pretty bad.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote razziesucks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by saturnwatcher

Originally posted by razziesucks

 

 He then First Blood, which was a great film, and was his first financial hit since Rocky II, so he then made Rocky III.

First Blood was a "great film"???????????????

I hearby retire from this debate. Either it is no longer occuring in the universe I inhabit or one participants just forfeited all of his credibility.  

You'd like it to be that simple, your strawman arguments are P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C. You have yet to make one point that deserves merit.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote dEd Grimley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 12:22pm
You still keep arguing with OLD stuff. If he gave up on making good movies to make good money, then you can't really defend him as a legitimate artist.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote razziesucks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 12:30pm

Originally posted by dEd Grimley

You still keep arguing with OLD stuff. If he gave up on making good movies to make good money, then you can't really defend him as a legitimate artist.

That was his best work as a leading man, that’s why I kept mentioning them. A few years ago he worked on the ensemble, Shade, which was a pretty solid film. It seemed like he was going into more of a character actor route, but he decided he didn't want to give up being a leading man. Shade, after it got positive buzz, tried to get a wide release, but either was shown in certain States or DTV. Then he did solid work in really sub par films, such as Eye See You and Avenging Angelo. After Cop Land, studios turned their back on him, because he essentially said, no more action films.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote dEd Grimley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2009 at 12:38pm
...Soooo he did one fairly solid film, in which he did not star, following his heyday in the late 70's? From the way he's listed in the IMDB database, I'm assuming it wasn't a very major role at all. Again, I'm not saying he's as bad as some others might, I'm just saying he did some good stuff a while ago, then some pretty bad stuff, and he hasn't really seemed to recover. And to be fair, if you look at the mullet he was sporting when he got arrested for steroids in Australia, he really deserves at least a "Worst Haircut" Razzie, albeit a bit overdue as he's since fixed it.
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